F5F Stay Refreshed Hardware Desktop The motherboard isn't posting, I've tried nearly everything.

The motherboard isn't posting, I've tried nearly everything.

The motherboard isn't posting, I've tried nearly everything.

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_Piotre_
Junior Member
Find
11
01-02-2019, 06:18 AM
#11
Corsair HX850i 2013 review (in Russian, so you need to translate that),
link:
https://i2hard.ru/publications/21512/
I
strongly advise
you to replace the PSU. Corsair HX850i initially released in 2013. At current moment, your PSU is 12 years old, which is more than the life expectancy Corsair gave to it (it released with 7 year warranty, while later models got 10 year warranty).
Sure, PSU reviewed well when it released in 2013. It was the best Corsair unit back then (OEM: CWT).
However, the years they PSU has on it, doesn't do well for it.
For one, capacitors age in time, regardless if you use the PSU or not. And your PSU has two main caps in it. Sadly, review doesn't state the make/model of main caps, other than saying they are Nippon Chemi-Con and rated 105C.
Inside the PSU (actually everywhere in your system, including those on GPU and MoBo), there are electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytic capacitor is a type of polarized capacitor that uses an electrolyte to achieve a large capacitance, making them useful for applications like power supply filtering, voltage stabilization and energy storage.
Electrolytic capacitors, even unused ones, degrade over time due to internal material breakdown, primarily due to the evaporation of the electrolyte in the electrolytic capacitors. This degradation causes a loss of capacitance, an increase in equivalent series resistance (ESR) and eventually - failure. Common shelf life of an electrolytic capacitor is 5 to 10 years.
Then, there's the fact of PSU failing to keep voltages within spec over time. Since voltage regulation will worsen over time.
Now, HX850i started out with 3% deviation on main rails (+12V, +5V, +3.3V) and while it is lower than ATX spec says (max 5%), the deviation will increase in time. Until PSU surpasses ATX spec and starts to cause instability within the system (either providing too low or high voltages). And checking the voltage during idle doesn't mean anything. You have to check voltages during load.
For comparison, my Seasonic unit [SSR-650TD] started out with 0.48% deviation on main rails. (
Review
.) That's mythical levels of load regulation (and one of the many reasons why i bought it), whereby my PSU will stand far better against time. That also explains why my PSU has 12 year warranty (the longest warranty for a PSU there is).
Another thing is ripple. Ripple is essentially unwanted noise PSU generates within power rails when it produces DC. And the higher the ripple is - the less stable the system also will be. So, you want as low ripple (noise) in voltage rails as possible. Now, ATX spec about ripple limits is way too high, with up to 120mV on +12V rail and up to 50mV on other rails, +5V and +3.3V.
Your PSU, sadly, doesn't have it's ripple tested. So, we don't know how the ripple was when PSU was brand new. But in due time, the ripple will increase within voltage rails as well, as PSU ages.
My PSU, ripple wise, started out at mythical levels. Where +12V rail peaks at 12.2mV (or 13.3mV when overloaded 110%), +5V rail peaks at 8mV and +3.3V rail peaks at 11.7mV.
This would only be true when PSU dies within warranty period. Either 7 or 10 years, depending when the PSU was made.
However, since your PSU is past the warranty, there is no telling if the protections in the PSU even work anymore. Could very well be, that when PSU finally goes "pop", it releases magic smoke, protections fail to engage (due to being way too old) and PSU fries everything it is connected to (aka your whole PC).
In a similar sense, you could buy high quality winter tires, drive with them for 10 years. You can still see tire tread on the tires, but are tires still great after 10 years? No, they are not. Tire compound hardens over time and for winter tires, it means loss of grip and flexibility, despite the tire still having plenty of tread on it.
Lifespan of a tire is about 6 years, even when the tread isn't worn out.
You do not know if your PSU is a good unit. All you know, is that it is already used for 10 years.
For you to claim the PSU to be good, is only if you bought it brand new and didn't abuse it over the years.
When it comes to power delivery, it is serious business due to the risks it carries.
When you cheap out on CPU, worst that can happen is that your CPU takes longer to compute stuff. Cheap out on GPU and worst is that you're playing on 720p with low settings. Cheap out on SSD/HDD, and you're looking slow read/write times with good chance of data corruption and loss of personal data. Cheap out on PC case and... No, PC doesn't need PC case what-so-ever. PC case is just a tool to keep all PC components in one neat place, while giving the sensitive electronics some form of protection from outside forces (e.g child or cat can't poke their paws into it).
No other component, except the PSU, has the ability to fry other components and worse, put your very life and house in danger (crap quality PSUs have catched fire and burned down houses, even lives have been lost).
Hardware often fails without apparent reason. And with PSUs, the failure is usually sudden and can be spectacular as well, with nice fireworks.
Then, there is the fact that the older the PSU is, the higher the chance of PSU going belly up at any moment. So, unless you want to see how far you can push lady luck, i wouldn't gamble with it and instead, would get proper, brand new, Tier A PSU for the next 10 years.
For proper PSU for a PC with dedicated GPU, Tier A is proper. Like: Seasonic Focus/Vertex/PRIME, Corsair RMx/RMi/HXi/AXi, Super Flower Leadex Gold/Platinum/Titanium.
PSU tier list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JW...1973454078
Tier A- will do too, while Tier A+ is preferred.
(My 2x PCs are solely powered by Tier A+ PSUs. I have Seasonic PRIME 650 Titanium (Tier A+) and Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 Titanium (Tier A+) units. Specs/pics in my sig.)
The way how PSUs are tested, is with proper testing hardware (which costs a lot, easy 10K USD. More like 20-30K) and PSU is put through different load scenarios. To see if the PSU matches the ATX PSU standard and if the protections work or not. During testing, PSU is commonly pushed to 120% of it's capacity, for ATX 3.x PSUs, up to 200% capacity. If the PSU fails before that, then it is a poor PSU. If not and it survives, then we can tell that the PSU is reliable.
Sometimes, PSUs are driven into failure, just to see how much they can take. You only have one aged PSU and i don't think you'd be willing to drive it into failure, to see how well it stood up. Since when PSU does fail, there is no repairing it anymore.
NEVER-EVER
open up the PSU for whatever reason!
The charge in the caps inside the PSU are lethal, even YEARS after the PSU has been unplugged from the electricity source.
Though, from outside perspective, you can only see if cap isn't popped or is popped (bulged on the top). Once cap pops, then it is already too late and PSU will not work.
But as i said above, electrolyte dissipates within the cap itself in due time. And that, you can not check visually.
There is a method to measure with a multimeter if the cap is good or bad. Two methods are:
* in the capacitance mode, look if capacitance of a cap is within 10%-20% of it's rated capacity or not.
* high resistance (ohms) mode, like 200kΩ or 2MΩ . If the cap is good, resistance reading will start low (near zero) and gradually increase to infinity (or OL, open loop). This indicates that the cap is charging from multimeter battery. But if the reading immediately jumps to infinity and stays there OR the reading stays low OR shows a continuous beep (in continuity mode), latter meaning short circuit; then the cap is bad.
But before you can do that, you
HAVE TO
:
*
drain the capacitor from voltage
* de-solder the capacitor off from the PCB
* and then measure it's capacitance and/or resistance
Unless you aren't a certified electrician who knows how to do it safely,
DO NOT
attempt it.
Bulk caps in your PSU (the two biggest ones), have enough charge in them to send you to high heaven two times over.
But if you do not have proper knowledge and still attempt doing it, then i only have condolences to send to your family. 🪦
Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.
I, personally, would junk the PSU if there is a suspicion that it killed hardware. Since when you get your MoBo fixed, hook it behind your HX850i and it kills the MoBo 2nd time around, then what? Keep repairing the MoBo, spending your time and money on repairs and letting the PSU to kill it until the end of the time?
Reply
Reply
_
_Piotre_
01-02-2019, 06:18 AM #11

Corsair HX850i 2013 review (in Russian, so you need to translate that),
link:
https://i2hard.ru/publications/21512/
I
strongly advise
you to replace the PSU. Corsair HX850i initially released in 2013. At current moment, your PSU is 12 years old, which is more than the life expectancy Corsair gave to it (it released with 7 year warranty, while later models got 10 year warranty).
Sure, PSU reviewed well when it released in 2013. It was the best Corsair unit back then (OEM: CWT).
However, the years they PSU has on it, doesn't do well for it.
For one, capacitors age in time, regardless if you use the PSU or not. And your PSU has two main caps in it. Sadly, review doesn't state the make/model of main caps, other than saying they are Nippon Chemi-Con and rated 105C.
Inside the PSU (actually everywhere in your system, including those on GPU and MoBo), there are electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytic capacitor is a type of polarized capacitor that uses an electrolyte to achieve a large capacitance, making them useful for applications like power supply filtering, voltage stabilization and energy storage.
Electrolytic capacitors, even unused ones, degrade over time due to internal material breakdown, primarily due to the evaporation of the electrolyte in the electrolytic capacitors. This degradation causes a loss of capacitance, an increase in equivalent series resistance (ESR) and eventually - failure. Common shelf life of an electrolytic capacitor is 5 to 10 years.
Then, there's the fact of PSU failing to keep voltages within spec over time. Since voltage regulation will worsen over time.
Now, HX850i started out with 3% deviation on main rails (+12V, +5V, +3.3V) and while it is lower than ATX spec says (max 5%), the deviation will increase in time. Until PSU surpasses ATX spec and starts to cause instability within the system (either providing too low or high voltages). And checking the voltage during idle doesn't mean anything. You have to check voltages during load.
For comparison, my Seasonic unit [SSR-650TD] started out with 0.48% deviation on main rails. (
Review
.) That's mythical levels of load regulation (and one of the many reasons why i bought it), whereby my PSU will stand far better against time. That also explains why my PSU has 12 year warranty (the longest warranty for a PSU there is).
Another thing is ripple. Ripple is essentially unwanted noise PSU generates within power rails when it produces DC. And the higher the ripple is - the less stable the system also will be. So, you want as low ripple (noise) in voltage rails as possible. Now, ATX spec about ripple limits is way too high, with up to 120mV on +12V rail and up to 50mV on other rails, +5V and +3.3V.
Your PSU, sadly, doesn't have it's ripple tested. So, we don't know how the ripple was when PSU was brand new. But in due time, the ripple will increase within voltage rails as well, as PSU ages.
My PSU, ripple wise, started out at mythical levels. Where +12V rail peaks at 12.2mV (or 13.3mV when overloaded 110%), +5V rail peaks at 8mV and +3.3V rail peaks at 11.7mV.
This would only be true when PSU dies within warranty period. Either 7 or 10 years, depending when the PSU was made.
However, since your PSU is past the warranty, there is no telling if the protections in the PSU even work anymore. Could very well be, that when PSU finally goes "pop", it releases magic smoke, protections fail to engage (due to being way too old) and PSU fries everything it is connected to (aka your whole PC).
In a similar sense, you could buy high quality winter tires, drive with them for 10 years. You can still see tire tread on the tires, but are tires still great after 10 years? No, they are not. Tire compound hardens over time and for winter tires, it means loss of grip and flexibility, despite the tire still having plenty of tread on it.
Lifespan of a tire is about 6 years, even when the tread isn't worn out.
You do not know if your PSU is a good unit. All you know, is that it is already used for 10 years.
For you to claim the PSU to be good, is only if you bought it brand new and didn't abuse it over the years.
When it comes to power delivery, it is serious business due to the risks it carries.
When you cheap out on CPU, worst that can happen is that your CPU takes longer to compute stuff. Cheap out on GPU and worst is that you're playing on 720p with low settings. Cheap out on SSD/HDD, and you're looking slow read/write times with good chance of data corruption and loss of personal data. Cheap out on PC case and... No, PC doesn't need PC case what-so-ever. PC case is just a tool to keep all PC components in one neat place, while giving the sensitive electronics some form of protection from outside forces (e.g child or cat can't poke their paws into it).
No other component, except the PSU, has the ability to fry other components and worse, put your very life and house in danger (crap quality PSUs have catched fire and burned down houses, even lives have been lost).
Hardware often fails without apparent reason. And with PSUs, the failure is usually sudden and can be spectacular as well, with nice fireworks.
Then, there is the fact that the older the PSU is, the higher the chance of PSU going belly up at any moment. So, unless you want to see how far you can push lady luck, i wouldn't gamble with it and instead, would get proper, brand new, Tier A PSU for the next 10 years.
For proper PSU for a PC with dedicated GPU, Tier A is proper. Like: Seasonic Focus/Vertex/PRIME, Corsair RMx/RMi/HXi/AXi, Super Flower Leadex Gold/Platinum/Titanium.
PSU tier list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JW...1973454078
Tier A- will do too, while Tier A+ is preferred.
(My 2x PCs are solely powered by Tier A+ PSUs. I have Seasonic PRIME 650 Titanium (Tier A+) and Seasonic PRIME Ultra 650 Titanium (Tier A+) units. Specs/pics in my sig.)
The way how PSUs are tested, is with proper testing hardware (which costs a lot, easy 10K USD. More like 20-30K) and PSU is put through different load scenarios. To see if the PSU matches the ATX PSU standard and if the protections work or not. During testing, PSU is commonly pushed to 120% of it's capacity, for ATX 3.x PSUs, up to 200% capacity. If the PSU fails before that, then it is a poor PSU. If not and it survives, then we can tell that the PSU is reliable.
Sometimes, PSUs are driven into failure, just to see how much they can take. You only have one aged PSU and i don't think you'd be willing to drive it into failure, to see how well it stood up. Since when PSU does fail, there is no repairing it anymore.
NEVER-EVER
open up the PSU for whatever reason!
The charge in the caps inside the PSU are lethal, even YEARS after the PSU has been unplugged from the electricity source.
Though, from outside perspective, you can only see if cap isn't popped or is popped (bulged on the top). Once cap pops, then it is already too late and PSU will not work.
But as i said above, electrolyte dissipates within the cap itself in due time. And that, you can not check visually.
There is a method to measure with a multimeter if the cap is good or bad. Two methods are:
* in the capacitance mode, look if capacitance of a cap is within 10%-20% of it's rated capacity or not.
* high resistance (ohms) mode, like 200kΩ or 2MΩ . If the cap is good, resistance reading will start low (near zero) and gradually increase to infinity (or OL, open loop). This indicates that the cap is charging from multimeter battery. But if the reading immediately jumps to infinity and stays there OR the reading stays low OR shows a continuous beep (in continuity mode), latter meaning short circuit; then the cap is bad.
But before you can do that, you
HAVE TO
:
*
drain the capacitor from voltage
* de-solder the capacitor off from the PCB
* and then measure it's capacitance and/or resistance
Unless you aren't a certified electrician who knows how to do it safely,
DO NOT
attempt it.
Bulk caps in your PSU (the two biggest ones), have enough charge in them to send you to high heaven two times over.
But if you do not have proper knowledge and still attempt doing it, then i only have condolences to send to your family. 🪦
Different persons have different standards (some have higher standards while others have lower standards) and it's up to every person to decide how good of a build quality components are safe to use in their PC. But keep in mind that PSU is the most important component inside the PC since it powers everything.
I, personally, would junk the PSU if there is a suspicion that it killed hardware. Since when you get your MoBo fixed, hook it behind your HX850i and it kills the MoBo 2nd time around, then what? Keep repairing the MoBo, spending your time and money on repairs and letting the PSU to kill it until the end of the time?

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